This week on GEAR UP with BigIron, Collector Car Experts Gary and Muffy Bennett return as guests to discuss the nuances of the collector car market with our Founder, Mark Stock. Tune in to listen to their unique and interesting stories - including the details behind a rare car that sold for $5.5 million TWICE and a car found as a gift for a former United States President! Hear how the couple also highlights the importance of car maintenance, how they strive to hold integrity and transparency within the car industry, and the emotional aspects of car ownership and proper estate planning. GEAR UP with BigIron and listen in today!
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Transcript:
Mark Stock 00:06
Hey everybody. Mark Stock here and Gear Up is live on this podcast brought to you by Big Iron, and due to popular demand, we have Gary and Muffy Bennett back on our program today. Last week, we had them on the show, and the overwhelming response from you has been outstanding. Not only have we had thumbs up all over our podcast channels, but we've had questions, and I've got a bunch of them right here that we're going to try to get addressed today, because we've got two of the industry leaders talking to you about classic and collector cars, and that's the first question I have, Gary and Muffy. First of all, welcome to Gear Up today, and they are at their home in Phoenix, Arizona, and one of my first questions is on my list is, what's the difference between a classic or a collector car? Is there a difference?
(Musical Intro) 00:06
Intro
Gary Bennett 00:35
The classic tends to be awarded to cars that are pre war, and collector cars are post war. And reality is that, because of what's going on in this they've all become collector cars. Classic is becoming a misnomer. It used to be when back in the 70s, the pre war cars were the premier cars, the Duesenbergs, the Packards, all those those cars, European classics. And back then, even when they talked about a classic, it wasn't about those cars. It was about the brass era cars, which were the 19, early 1900 cars. And so it's been it's a confusing word Classic is, and as a result, we have personally adopted the term collector cars because that encompasses everything. Something you wanted to say?
Muffy Bennett 02:06
No, you pretty much summed it up.
Mark Stock 02:08
Well, I tell you what, folks, if you didn't listen to our podcast last week,this week, we are talking to Gary and Muffy Bennett, and you can tell just by this first intro you will not talk to anybody that knows more about cars than this dynamic married couple duo, Gary and Muffy Bennett. Now I'm going to go back to our first episode where, you know, Gary talked about his career as a young lad, getting into the car space with a well known auction company, Barrett Jackson and then Muffy eventually, you know, they get together, and they have this dynamic duo, and they go not only throughout the United States, but I think you guys have probably traveled abroad. Have you not, looking at cars?
Gary Bennett 02:59
Yeah
Mark Stock 02:59
Tell us a little bit about those stories, you know, and how far you've gone to talk to people about their vehicles, and where you've gone to look at cars.
Muffy Bennett 03:08
Japan,
03:09
Yeah. Used to, yeah. He used to, yeah. Japan. That's that Tucker I mentioned in in the previous episode, sold in Japan.
Mark Stock 03:20
So you sold, you sold your car to somebody in Japan, and you went to Japan to make sure he got possession of it, or you went to Japan before he took possession of it.
03:28
Mark, I'm a face to face guy. I'm not good on the tele - I'm okay on the telephone, but I don't like phones because I need to be in a room with somebody, because I need to see what how they're acting when they're talking to me. I'm just, I'm a dinosaur, I guess, but
Muffy Bennett 03:45
You're old school
Gary Bennett 03:46
Anyway. So sad. I, I wanted to go see the guy, so I mentioned I'd like to meet him. He said, Well, I'll fly you over here. And the next thing I know, he was flying my entire family over there.
Mark Stock 03:57
Wow.
Gary Bennett 03:58
This was in the 90s. And so anyway, that was a that was an amazing journey, and a lot of fun stuff happened as a result of that. But, and Muffy, Muffy got a call from Garth Brooks. I'm going to let you tell that story.
Muffy Bennett 04:13
We don't want that
Gary Bennett 04:15
But it's important. She, She has bought a car for the a President of the United States, let me tell her story.
Muffy Bennett 04:21
So Garth Brooks gave us a call because he was looking for a gift, for his anniversary gift for his friends,
Gary Bennett 04:28
Jim and Rosalyn Carter
Muffy Bennett 04:29
Jim and Rosalyn Carter, and it was their 75th wedding anniversary, so they wanted a car from that era, from that year, specifically,
Gary Bennett 04:32
46
Muffy Bennett 04:33
So I went and traveled the United States and found the perfect car, and I flew across the United States twice just to look at cars, and found the perfect car, and we bought it for them, and we had the Secret Service evaluate it, and it was given to them as a gift. We've had some great experiences with some really neat people, you know, really passionate people.
Gary Bennett 05:02
Let's back up a second. I, one of the things that I think was really interesting about her finding a car for the Carter family was that they were married in 1946 and 46 was a crazy year in the automotive world, because we were coming right out of World War II, and the manufacturers of automobiles were converting back from their from the things they were making, or into automobiles. And there were not, there are very few 46 mile cars, even fewer 45s. There aren't any 44s, 43s, 42s. But at the end of the day, it was, it was a struggle, because Mr. Brooks wanted a really nice vehicle, and there just weren't that many of them out there. So she, she did just that. She flew everywhere. Looked at just like, just like we all have done. You think you found the perfect car? You go there and it's not even close to what somebody said it was. So you have to go see and she found the perfect car in Florida, ironically, and it was, it was a wonderful experience for her. I was living vicariously through what she was doing, and it was fun
Muffy Bennett 05:14
You stayed at home running the business
Gary Bennett 05:51
Well it sounds like you guys compliment each other so well, and how has your personal and professional experiences attributed to that and your success?
Muffy Bennett 06:27
He spends all of his time managing me. I'm like a live wire. I really am. I'm always moving in Mach Five. I have no off button. I barely sleep, and this poor dude is like the rock, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Gary Bennett 06:47
I've got tremendous patience. And -
Muffy Bennett 06:49
Yes!
Gary Bennett 06:51
And patience is really nothing but discipline,
Muffy Bennett 06:54
Yeah.
Gary Bennett 06:54
And at the end of the day, Muffy just is like a live nerve ending, like she said, and my role is not to reel her in, but ask the right questions. Let's be sure this is the right thing to do. Have you thought about this or thought about that? And what's really wonderful about this relationship is she, she brings it's wonderful for me, too, Mark and that because we complement each other's strengths and weaknesses and and that's what every good relationship should be built on, whether it's a business partnership or a marriage. And marriages are partnerships at the end of the day, and we just have taken our love for one another, rolled it into a business and we it's, it's good for us, because we share this, the same interests in things and and we'd think the same thing sometimes, and we'll look each other and say the same word about a car, you know, or to go look at it, or not to go look at it based on a phone call, that kind of thing. And I think that's healthy. That's a good thing.
Muffy Bennett 08:03
It is. And it's really rare, too, to be able to work with your spouse. You know, we both know when to, to, figuratively speaking, pick our battles. I mean, we don't. We don't really argue at all. We'll have it, we'll have healthy discussions, but we've made it work. You know, it we, it's a fascinating relationship. We met, we met in a biker bar. We got married in the bar where Wild Bill Hickok was shot during a Corvette rally, in Deadwood, South Dakota. We went to, we went to Sturgis for our honeymoon. I mean, we really are kind of unusual in that regard. But that's what one of the many things that makes it work. You know, it's but, but mainly, we just, we just adore each other.
Gary Bennett 08:47
Thank you.
Muffy Bennett 08:48
Oh, thank you. You're my rock.
Mark Stock 08:52
That is so special. That is neat. And with that, we're going to take our quick break for this commercial message, and we'll be right back with Gary and Muffy Bennett.
Commercial 08:59
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Mark Stock 09:29
And folks, we are back here with Gary and Muffy Bennett on Gear Up, brought to you by BigIron. And we have been having the best time ever talking to two wonderful people who have not only inspired us about their cars but their love and appreciation for each other. Thank you very much for that. I mean, I'm giddy all about it. It makes me feel really good. And having said that, you know, your career in the car business and your relationship with each other has obviously brought some unforgettable experiences, like, can you tell us what was the most expensive car you've ever sold on an auction?
Gary Bennett 10:10
$5.5 million
Mark Stock 10:12
Whoa, say that, say that again. Did you say $5.5 million for one car?
Gary Bennett 10:20
One car
Mark Stock 10:20
No way.
Gary Bennett 10:21
It was a 1966 Shelby, Super Snake, Cobra, one of, I think only, I can't remember the number three or four cars produced. It had, it had turbo chargers on it. It was, it was a, it was an amazing car. And it was, I believe it's the sole survivor. They didn't survive, but this car, and Carol was there. He was representing it. It was an amazing car, and we actually sold that car twice. And typically, and Mark, you can relate to this because of your experiences. When you have something like that sell for $5.5 million you look at that and think we just captured lightning in a bottle. That'll never happen again. We sold it a second time for $5.5 million
Mark Stock 11:11
Wow.
Gary Bennett 11:11
And that car still is the most expensive car. I think that's been like since I was all the time I was there, the most expensive car we ever sold. And it was amazing. People were just crazy about it. It was amazing car.
Mark Stock 11:25
You know, one of the questions that sticks out over and over again is, you know, if I own a car and I want to sell it sometime down the road, what steps should I be doing to get ready to sell the car? And is there a seasonality to selling cars.
Muffy Bennett 11:41
Yeah wow. Okay, I'll start. Um, so the first thing that me as a seller, or when I'm recommending to someone about selling a vehicle, is you always ensure that you can sign it early. You want to be sure that you capitalize on that marketing for that particular vehicle. And you also need to keep in mind too, that every auction has its own personality. I mean, we've got RM over here, they do the high end Pebble Beach cars and and everything seems to sell well online at all times. You know, if you're, if you're going, if you live in Florida, you might be looking for a convertible or a pastel type color car, you're more apt to buy those, you know. So everything has its own personality. And I am always sure that whenever I'm selling a car personally, you know, it's detailed to the nines. If there's anything broken on it, it's been fixed, you know, little if I need to do some tweaks to it, I'll do some tweaks to it. You know, always ensure that that that car is standing tall. You want to talk about it?
Gary Bennett 12:45
Well, I just, representation is key. So one of the things that I've realized is storyboards information about the car that can be read from 15 or 20 feet away. That'll give a guy enough information to ask an intelligent question, because a lot of people that come to these things are watching us online aren't car people, and we need to be sure that we and online we're answering all those questions. We've got a complete description, but so disclosure is a key to if you've got a car that's got a problem, say it. There's nothing wrong with that. Just let people know what they're buying. It'll eliminate potential arbitrations and issues in the going down the road. So I've interrupted you, back to you now.
Muffy Bennett 13:28
No you're good. You covered it. I think, I think we've covered it.
Mark Stock 13:31
In our business, we do a lot of work for people who have passed away. Any advice you can give to heirs, you know, dad or grandma or grandpa. You know, I've had that vehicle sitting in the garage forever, and just like what you said before, Gary, sometimes those stories about that car never make it, and then, all of a sudden, here we have a car that's going to get sold, and nobody has any history other than who's got the title. I don't know. We can't even find the title. Where is the title, you know? And that's about all they got on it. Any advice you can give to family members that are still alive, that might be listening to this, that have a car in the shed, that want to pass it on to their family. What should they be doing to preserve the history of that car?
Muffy Bennett 14:10
Well, that we get calls all the time from, you know, widows and widowers and and looking to sell, looking for advice, it's important that you get as much information about that vehicle as possible while you know your loved one is still alive and and we have been known to tell especially widows, don't do anything rash. Just take your time. You need to heal first. You need to get through what you've just what's just happened to you, you know, and it doesn't matter if your loved one has been suffering for a long period of time with an illness, it still hurts just as bad. So work on the healing process first. Get as much, obviously, get that information, and when you're ready, you know, reach out to I don't know, reach out to us. We can give you some guidance. You know, one of the things we need to be mindful of is when that that person that owns that vehicle thinks that it's worth X amount of dollars, that market changes, and it changes rapidly. And this market, generally speaking, is fickle, so be sure that you come well equipped with a value. Do you want to add anything here?
Gary Bennett 15:22
Yeah I just, everything you said is right. I would add to it. I would suggest families, if you have, if you have a collection of cars and everybody's there, do some estate planning.
Muffy Bennett 15:34
Oh yeah
Gary Bennett 15:35
Sell them while the guy that loves the cars is alive.
Muffy Bennett 15:38
Yes,
Mark Stock 15:39
He has the story.
Muffy Bennett 15:40
Yes,
Gary Bennett 15:41
That's how the information travels.
Muffy Bennett 15:43
Exactly.
Gary Bennett 15:44
One, one thing that we haven't discussed that I think's critical, and it's, it is the epitome of BigIron. It's integrity. In this business,
Muffy Bennett 15:55
Yeah.
Gary Bennett 15:55
And doing the right thing, representing the cars accurately, BigIron is wonderful about working with people, with with your reps out in the field, to have relationships with these people. All of that's so important to having a positive result in the sale. And you can, you don't have to always measure that by dollars, it's about the relationship when you're done, and how you've managed those expectations through the process.
Muffy Bennett 16:27
And being transparent and ethical and managing those expectations are paramount in this industry.
Gary Bennett 16:31
And Mark one of the things that's driven us to BigIron and being so excited about working with you guys. It's all these things. I mean, you go, you represent all those things.
Mark Stock 16:45
Thank you. Appreciate that. I know a lot of the times the folks that they they have these cars and they want to gift them or will them to their heirs, is because they they don't want to pay all the recapturing tax. You know, the ideal of people paying all the tax. But I always tell them, well, if you sell this car when you're alive, or this collector truck or whatever it is that you have when you're alive, it actually brings so much more money that that you can pay that extra money to pay the tax, because your heirs don't know anything about it, unless you do things today to prepare yourself for that. Some of those things is, have somebody use today's phones. I mean, you can video your dad or your grandpa or your uncle in front of that vehicle, saying, when he bought it, what he did to it. It only has to be a minute, two minutes of video, and and make sure you save that and store that somewhere so that way down the road, 5-10, 15-20, years later, when you make the decision to sell it, you have that history piece that's attached to that from the person that knows about it. But it's one thing to take the video. It's another thing to where are you putting the video so it stays with it. Okay, that's that's going to be the next challenge, but that's some of the advice that I give to some of the people that don't want to depart it because they want to gift it to their loved ones after they pass away, just to avoid the tax. Anything that you can add on to that?
Muffy Bennett 18:16
I really don't have anything else to add, but that's a really great approach. In the grand scheme, documentation is key with these vehicles, ensuring that, like, if you've got a protecto-plate or you've got a build sheet or
Gary Bennett 18:28
A photograph
Muffy Bennett 18:29
A photograph.
Gary Bennett 18:30
A photograph with the family, with the owner, with and the story. And I've said this to people I and I've owned cars, and I wish this were true. I wish cars could talk and tell their stories, because you think about some of these cars have been on the planet as long as they've been here and taken people to the hospital, have babies, taken people to hospital, have died. I mean whatever. I mean all these things that they've been our life, our lives have evolved around the automobiles, and the automobile has been a key component in everything that happens to us, and I just think that's one of my things I love about cars. As I've matured, I've gotten to where I appreciate them, not just for their beauty and power, but what they represent to so many different people and me too. I mean, even myself. I've got cars that mean a lot to me, and I need to, I need to do some of what you're talking about. I need to make sure we have that. I have you. But the documentation, all that stuff's so important, and telling that story is key.
Mark Stock 19:38
Couple more questions that I have to get to, because these are some of that everybody always asks, okay? They always ask these questions. I've had car sitting in my garage for years. What's the best way to keep the mice out of them?
Gary Bennett 19:50
Dryer sheets that you put in the dryer, you buy them in a box, you tear them off and put them in the dryer. You can put those throughout a car, and mice won't bother it. I don't know what. Them under the hood. Don't forget to take them out when you start it. See that's that Ferarri mind, she's already ahead of me.
Muffy Bennett 20:11
We have a Lamborghini in the garage, and we have a we have a, there's a we're in the desert. We have rodents. And a mouse or something, got up underneath the hood and ate the wiring harness, started a fire, so we get it, but dryer sheets is one thing, go out there and start the thing, you know, at least once a week, ensure it turns over, because when they sit it's not good for the seals. It's not good for the rubbers. It's horrible for the gasoline, because that can turn to turpentine.
Gary Bennett 20:39
Well, we've got ethanol and everything now, and it's so bad.
Muffy Bennett 20:42
Yeah.
Mark Stock 20:42
That's the next question. You know, if you don't drive your vehicle on a consistent basis, at what point in time does it not matter for value? Is there a matter for value like this $5.5 million Cobra Shelby that you just sold? Are they driving that car, or is that ever going to matter? Now, let's break that down to a to to a $5000 or $25,000 car. Is there a point in time where driving a car or not driving a car affects its value?
Gary Bennett 21:11
If you, if you're going to put a car away Mark, do it intelligently. You can, you can, a car is okay for a couple three months, but the make sure I mean condensation and fuel tanks. I mean, you can buy stuff like stable. There's different there's things you can do then don't let it sit on the floor and let the tires get flat spots. Put they might they race ramps, make a cradle that's curved, so the tires sit in a curved radius, and they, they don't get flat spots that way. But, I mean, there's just things you can do, and sometimes you have to leave a car for a while, and I get that, but car, it's just heartbreaking. We've got a friend who bought a 1990 ZR1 and five miles. It's, it's, I mean, 20, it's 35 years old now, and this car has so much rust in the gas tank you can't put a fuel nozzle in the gas filler hole.
Muffy Bennett 22:13
I was asked to do like a round table once years ago for a car magazine. And they asked us, all of us, the entire panel, what our thoughts were in regards to investing in collector vehicles. And everybody on the panel had an opinion that blue chip cars are fantastic to invest in. And my response was, never buy a car as an investment, because the times can change, tastes change. It's all cyclical. Buy it because you love it. Buy it because you want it. Don't buy it because you think it's going to increase in value. You know, there, I get little joy from going out to the garage and looking at a car that we never drive. Don't buy it because you think it's going to go up in value. And I'm of the opinion that, you know, take it out and enjoy it. We let kids sit in our Ford GT, you know, whenever we go out to a car show, we've got one of our cars and some, some child show, some semblance of interest. We're working on the future here. We're like, Hey, you want to sit in it. Go ahead and honk that horn. Dad, Mom, take photos. You know? I mean, it's important that we cultivate that for the future. So, you know, there's really no way to to estimate, you know, curtailing the mileage on a vehicle whether or not that's going to impact the value.
Mark Stock 23:32
So looking back, you guys have been in this for a long, long time. What do you want your legacy to be?
Gary Bennett 23:38
Integrity. Doing the right thing. We couldn't be more proud of the way we do business and working with people like your team. I mean, we're so proud of our relationship and do it just doing the right thing.
Mark Stock 23:57
I'm 100% your camp. That's everything. That is everything is how you exit this world. When people remember back going, now that was somebody, whatever they said was gospel. It was as good as gold.
Muffy Bennett 24:12
Things happen, things things break, and we do our best whenever we're selling something that belongs to us to ensure that it is as good as it can be, you know, and it's, it's disappointing that used car dealers typically end up with that stigma attached to it, but we do our best to to be transparent and ethical, because it's all we all you've got are our names and you know.
Gary Bennett 24:35
And again, one of the things too, I think, is really important. And I know you believe this too, Mark, is in your dealings with people, being fair and consistent is the the only thing to do. Because in my roles in the past where I've had act I could do things for people. I just if I did it for him, I needed to do it for everybody else.
Mark Stock 24:59
I got one more question before we have to sign off, because this is such great information. I think everybody's sitting on the edge of their seats, and this one has to do with how important is the the history of that title to the vehicle. How do you document that title when you sell it? And then every state uses different titles. How will that ever change to be more unified?
Muffy Bennett 25:25
Titles are paramount. You know, it's amazing. Mark. How many people will send the car to auction, and they never bothered to look to see if the VIN number on the title matches the VIN number on the car,
Gary Bennett 25:34
And they don't.
Muffy Bennett 25:35
They just don't. Yeah, we held a seminar years ago, and they were, all we talked about was preparing a car for auction. And that's, that's the first thing that we always ask, you know, hey, how many of you in the audience have actually checked to make sure this matches? So as far as titling is concerned, it's not my forte, mind you, but it's, it's obviously very important when you're selling the car like that, if there's, if there's, um, provenance or paperwork that goes with the vehicle. Always ensure that you take a copy of that title before you turn it into your name. If you're buying a car, front and back. There's also pedigree that goes with these vehicles, like, for example, if you if you misplace some of these documents, it can mean
Gary Bennett 26:18
Broadcast sheet, bill sheets.
Muffy Bennett 26:19
It can mean 10s of 1000s of dollars of value gone because you can't prove the pedigree of that vehicle.
Mark Stock 26:27
It's so enlightening to me to hear your stories and hear the things that I'm sure all of our listeners want to hear about their cars are sitting in their garage and in their shed. Want to thank you very much for the kind words about the Sullivan collector car auction and the big iron platform, we appreciate that. We want to let everybody know that these two wonderful people are part of our consulting organization, and we rely on them heavily to keep us on that path of doing everything the right way in the car space, because we want to do it the right way, or we're not going to do it at all. That's the way we like to approach things so we are so thankful once again. Thank you, Gary, appreciate it. Thank you very much, Muffy, you guys are wonderful, and that's our episode of Gear Ip. Thank you very much. See you next time, remember to tell your friends and your family about this Gear Up podcast. Share it with everybody, and we want to thank you very much for using BigIron and Sullivan Auctioneers.